Windows / Quicktime

[Luxcollective]

It's been a while since Quicktime was updated for Windows OS (I think 7 is the last OS it was updated for even though it still works on 10) Since Apple formally announced that it is dropping support for Quicktime on Windows altogether, what does that mean for Resolume on Windows? Is it eventually possible to have a playback engine that does not require Quicktime? For peeps working at high levels for large events, their media servers almost exclusively need to be built on Windows hardware because of all the pro I/O and video card horsepower needs. ...at least until Apple goes back to offering a professional desktop option with expansion capabilities. Just curious what the future holds since I have about $12k invested in this PC Resolume beast.

[DHoude]

One further note, I guess there is a major security bug

http://www.wired.com/2016/04/uninstall- ... n-windows/

http://www.iflscience.com/technology/ho ... -quicktime

[Joris]

Don't worry. Resolume doesn't rely solely on Quicktime for its playback. Alls DXV encoded files are played back by Resolume itself, so it's perfectly fine to not have Quicktime installed at all. Behind the scenes, we've already been working on getting rid of QT completely for the past 2 years, so you don't have to throw away any of your Windows machines.

For now, if you uninstall Quicktime completely, you're just going to have a hard time playing back other Quicktime files. But that's something that can't be helped. Because, well, you uninstalled Quicktime.

[DHoude]

I was actually using Quicktime to re encode my files to DXV3. What is the best option now for Windows users?

[Joris]

As far as I know, an app that can create .mov files doesn't actually require the Quicktime application to be installed. They just write to the format. So for instance Media Encoder and Mpeg Streamclip should still work.

Scratch that, turns out I don't know that far. This is going to be interesting. I think I have an idea what our Monday morning meeting will be about...

[Luxcollective]

Thanks for the info Joris!

I think these types of security concerns, in general, at least in terms of remote hacker vulnerabilities are simply over-hyped. Unless you are doing a lot of torrenting, opening a lot of unknown file attachments, or visiting these "malicious websites" then it's virtually impossible to be exposed to most of these types of exploits. ...but yeah, if you are using your media server on torrent sites and going to random "click here for money" and "free porn!" links then I suppose there is a risk. My media server is rarely online, other than to download software from reputable companies or live upstreaming. So as long as QT continues to function under the hood I am not really worried about the hype around the vulnerability with using the QT program itself (which I never do anyway on the PC rig).

In regards to the specific Quicktime vulnerability here is the official line for those who know this kind of stuff (which I certainly don't.) Note what has to happen for it to work though...

Both of the exploits are heap corruption remote code execution vulnerabilities. One vulnerability occurs when an attacker can write data outside of an allocated heap buffer. The other vulnerability occurs in the stco atom where by providing an invalid index, an attacker can write data outside of an allocated heap buffer. Both vulnerabilities require a user to visit a malicious web page or open a malicious file to exploit them. And both vulnerabilities would execute code in the security context of the QuickTime player, which in most cases would be that of the logged on user.

I am curious how well Arena, AME, and other software using Quicktime codecs will work without the Quicktime application itself. I always thought the codecs were separate from the Quicktime application so it seems like it would be fine if the Quicktime application itself went away as long as all the codecs behaved the same way in the various host applications.

[DHoude]

I actually looked at the Adobe forums as well (they were down all day yesterday). You can actually install Quicktime without the player component. Just select "Custom" and then only install the "Quicktime Essentials", which from what I gather is just the codecs.

QT no player.JPG (40.59 KiB) Viewed 13306 times

It is a small work around for a much bigger issue. I never could understand why Adobe, Serato DJ and many other big name live video playback applications all rely on QT for Windows. I actually got some bad screen tearing with MOV files on Windows 10. Win 7 was fine, so I went back to 7 for a while. The screen tearing also went away for me when I disabled DXVA in my DJ application or if I disabled my NVIDIA card for Resolume. I did see that DX12 had some BSOD issues with NVIDIA drivers. Both sides have been patched now from what I read. But I went down this road to say, QT does not really play nice in Windows for Live playback situations. I get that it is useful or maybe avoids extra licensing, but I am super happy to hear Joris say "we've already been working on getting rid of QT completely for the past 2 years". With the install method in my first paragraph, possibly we can come up with a good way to re encode videos and then buy some time as we work toward eliminating QT totally.

Unfortunately, I found the QT player did a way better job at re encoding than Adobe Media Encoder (less artifacts). AME was good for the most part, but a few clips after AME came out completely unacceptable for playback after re encoding and I could never fix that. So I am cautious of any free tools as AME should be pretty solid (not the best but solid). Not wild about the price on Sorenson Squeeze if I can avoid it. Also not sure if Squeeze requires QT, I am looking into this now.

Last, I also am not super worried about the current security issue QT. I am not reckless when I am online with my gig machine. But with my experience and now this vulnerability announced, I will be happy when QT is gone for good. I want to eventually use Win 10 again and all my problems really started with QT.

[rawdesigns]

As far as I know, an app that can create .mov files doesn't actually require the Quicktime application to be installed. They just write to the format. So for instance Media Encoder and Mpeg Streamclip should still work.

Scratch that, turns out I don't know that far. This is going to be interesting. I think I have an idea what our Monday morning meeting will be about...

If QT gets cut for R5 what will be the standard file format?

[Joris]

The important thing to remember is that .mov is a container format and not necessarily tied to the Quicktime Player or even the Quicktime playback system. An application doesn't need to have Quicktime installed to be able to read and write files in a .mov container. You just need to be able to understand the data in that container.

When you de-install Quicktime, Resolume can still read DXV encoded .mov files. It's our own codec, so we don't need anybody's help to read it. Also, the Adobe apps can still read and write the majority of .mov files, just not DXV ones.

The only thing that made Quicktime so great was its widespread support. You could install a 3rd party codec on your computer, and then each and every app that used Quicktime could read and write files with that codec. Magic! Of course, that all changed when Apple retired Quicktime in 2013. At the moment, there is no real alternative for such a professionally supported container. MXF is an option, but not nearly as well known or well supported. MOX is an open source alternative started in 2014, but has been pretty quiet since then.

Since Apple deprecated QT, we've been working on getting rid of it completely. In the future, you will still be able to playback .mov files as well record from Resolume and create DXV encoded files in other software. Whether we use the .mov container, use .mxf, make our own .dxv container, it's all a bit potahto/potayto. We'll think of something that will work.

The bad news is that that's not going to happen in R5. Quicktime is too much a part of our internal guts that we can't yank it out and replace it. The good news is that R6 will be completely QT free (and, by extension, also 64 bit. Yay.) No, we can't give an indication on when R6 will be done. Not this year, at least.

So for now, if you want to follow the US government's advice and de-install QT, you won't be able to create DXV .mov files in other software, including Adobe and MPEG Streamclip. Also you won't be able to play back non-DXV .mov files in Resolume. This can be expected, because, well, you chose to de-install Quicktime. In that case you're going to have to sit tight and wait for the various developers to roll out solutions or alternatives.

To put it in perspective a bit, keeping QT installed doesn't give hackers magical powers to do anything they want with your computer. You still need to click on dodgy links or open dodgy files for them to gain access. If you know what you're doing, I see no reason why you shouldn't keep QT installed for the time being.

[dirtyjohn_lv]

MOX, MXF or MKV would be the obvious choices ...

But something like DXV and DXI (where DXI is a single frame DXV), would be good too.

Good things about end of life for Quicktime for Windows ... we'll finally be able to get thumbnails again, because the codec would have to be written in directshow (hopefully)