masks fastness / cpu performance / kill me

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euw
Met Resolume in a bar the other day
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:56

masks fastness / cpu performance / kill me

Post by euw »

Hello!

I'm new here, I promise I've researched a lot on this problems, but finally I didn't find anything and I decided to register to this forums so maybe someone can show me the light. Here are my concerns:

I have , in a few layers that actually act like one (they're in a few for organizing purposes), video clips with textures, landscapes, clouds, that kind of thing. Some of them are shorter, some of them are longer, let's say from 5 seconds to a minute or so.

On the other hand, I have a few layers with some geometry images (png, I think I read somewhere it was the best format) that I use pretty much in two ways: multiply and cut, so I can have just a circle with clouds in it, or if I want to add a graphic into a texture.

Now, about launching everything: I use Ableton. I have some midi clips that are mapped to the clips, and I send the midi information through the IAC Bus. I have Resolume in piano mode. I don't have clock sync because it doesn't change much but clock sync always kills CPU. Ableton is synced, so Resolume will be.

With this configuration I have two problems/questions:

1) I usually leave textures on loop and then I play with them with the geometric layers that I use in multiply mode or cut mode. Problem is, when a clip from the mask layers change to another, there's always a fragment of a second with no mask at all. I know my explanation is terrible, let's try it other way.

I want this to happen:
- Texture in loop (full) - Texture inside a circle - Texture inside a triangle - Texture inside a square.
(when I mean inside, I mean I multiply the texture with a geometric figure image with the geometric figure on white, and the background in black)

This is what I get:
- Texture in loop (full) - Texture inside a circle - Texture in loop (full, for a fragment of a second) - Texture inside a triangle - Texture in loop (full, for a fragment of a second) - Texture inside a square

I don't know if you can see what happens. Everytime I change a mask element, you can see like "flashes", because between masks it always passes by the original texture without masks.

Damn I feel so stupid explaining this in english. I promise it's even difficult to explain in my own language.

So, anything I could do to solve this? a mode or something that would allow masks to be faster, so there can be continuity between masks? I've read something about actual masks in Resolume, but didn't understand a lot, and if there's something like that, would it be possible to change from what I have (images in layers with mask modes) to that? And more important, would it be better or worse for the CPU?

About the CPU, I'm in a situation when every bit counts. I would like to have an opinion on if it's better, with the set I have, to have the clips in timeline mode or in beat sync mode. What hurts less the CPU. I'd say more, please any advice on saving CPU will be welcome. At this point I use the DV format because I read it's better (even when the size of the videos is so big), but I don't know much more.

Thanks a lot and sorry for this long, probably terribly explained, post.

Best,
ender.

thedawjones
Hasn't felt like this about software in a long time
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Re: masks fastness / cpu performance / kill me

Post by thedawjones »

If you are using Live! midi as a trigger, why do you need beat sync or timeline? Redundant redundancy. :)
This can cause conflicts.
Using midi triggers negates the need for these modes if you are performing your audio with Ableton.
You might want to leave your mask clips in "composition" or "normal" trigger style.
your English is fine btw.

Joris
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Re: masks fastness / cpu performance / kill me

Post by Joris »

Everytime I change a mask element, you can see like "flashes", because between masks it always passes by the original texture without masks.
Could you upload a screenrecord of this happening? It works for me.
StillGettinLoveFromTheMultiply.gif
StillGettinLoveFromTheMultiply.gif (838.64 KiB) Viewed 10589 times

euw
Met Resolume in a bar the other day
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:56

Re: masks fastness / cpu performance / kill me

Post by euw »

Hello guys, thanks a lot for reading that long thing and answering.

First, here's a gif of what happens:

Image

This is a texture clip that occupies the whole screen with a mask. The mask is triggered by a midi clip that repeats every few beats. The gif captures what happens when the midi loop restarts. I know in this situation it could be fixed by putting a longer midi clip, but that also happens when the mask changes, and anyway having long midi clips doesn't look healthy, you can lose control. As you can see the effect makes the visuals look buggy and not very professional.

I've observed that when the computer has less stuff to handle this is less noticeable. But when we are playing live we can't have the whole CPU for this. Even having two laptops the computer we have for visuals can't do better. There has to be a solution for this, if the last midi note off and the following midi note in happen in the same moment, this probably has to happen, but as fast as not being this noticeable.

About the sync part - yes I see that if Ableton can handle it it doesn't make sense to have it also on Resolume. That's why I don't have checked the sync option in the IAC Bus. But what do you mean with "composition" or "normal" trigger style? For what I've seen I just can choose between BPM Sync, Timeline, or SMPTE:

Image

Maybe I'm not getting what you say. But yes please, anything that can make this asynchronous is welcome, the CPU will feel better.

Thanks a lot again, let me know if this is enough information!

thedawjones
Hasn't felt like this about software in a long time
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Location: Seattle, Washington

Re: masks fastness / cpu performance / kill me

Post by thedawjones »

There is no point of using sync for IAC bus -all of your synchronization should be happening through the timing within ableton and the quantised midi clips.
euw wrote:I have Resolume in piano mode
Is what I am referring to^^^
"

Via the manual:
Normally, when you click a clip, it starts playing and carries on until you clear the layer or play another clip. Through the Trigger Style setting, you can also use Piano mode, where the layer is automatically cleared when you take your finger off the mouse button (or MIDI key or keyboard button if you are using mapped controls)
You can set the Trigger Style for the whole composition through the Composition > Trigger Style menu option.
You can set the Trigger Style for an individual clip by selecting it and then using the Clip > Trigger Style menu option.

"
You should have the clips set to loop.
In other words -trigger the clip with a single midi note and let the video loop run until it is interrupted by the next loop when triggered by another midi note.
There should be no need to shorten or lengthen midi notes/triggers as you aren't using piano mode.
Transport should be set to "timeline".

As far as cpu usage -I can run Ableton with audio plus midi to Resolume-everything is on a 2005 dual core pc with 2 monitors and a projector with decent frame rates. Resolume is not the issue here.

euw
Met Resolume in a bar the other day
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:56

Re: masks fastness / cpu performance / kill me

Post by euw »

Thanks again for your answer.

I didn't understand very well, you are saying I should have the trigger mode in the normal mode instead of the piano mode I have now?

The problem I see with that is that I can't play between having masks and not having masks, right? When a mask is played, if the midi note that set it in the first place stops, that masks is going to ignore it and keep being there. I just tried and everything starts to be messed up because I don't have just two layers, and because the masks don't disappear when they're supposed to.

Should I make a blank mask to play when a mask sequence ends to clean the texture of masks?

Thanks a lot and sorry if I'm dumb, I'm more like an audio guy trying to change the way of thinking for this.

euw
Met Resolume in a bar the other day
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:56

Re: masks fastness / cpu performance / kill me

Post by euw »

I changed the mode to normal instead of piano a the flashing keeps happening. Besides, I had to do a lot of work to stop clips from ableton, since they kept playing once they were played. With that, also, I couldn't play more than one clip from the same layer, which it was basic for me. For example having a cut that makes the screen smaller and on top of that making flashes with rectangles or whatever. If I do that in normal mode I had to make more layers.

So, still, didn't progress a lot on this...

Joris
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Re: masks fastness / cpu performance / kill me

Post by Joris »

Sorry to hear that Resolume is making your show look unprofessional.

When you are using Midi notes and Piano mode triggering, the clip will eject when it receives a Note Off message. Live will send this Note Off at the end of the midi note, right before the new note starts.

So when your notes are quantized correctly, you will always see a quick flash between where the note has just ended (note off) and the new note is being started (note on). There is no way around this. Remember that you are telling Resolume to eject the clip before triggering the new one. So that is what Resolume does.

If you want the clips to play continuously, do not use Piano mode. This will let clips play seamlessly one after another, because you are not telling them to eject.

If you want a clip to stop playing while using normal triggering, simply map a note to the eject clip button ( X ) on the far left of the layer. You can use this same note throughout your midi track.

Hope that helps.

euw
Met Resolume in a bar the other day
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:56

Re: masks fastness / cpu performance / kill me

Post by euw »

Yes that helps. This is a pity, I have a concert tomorrow and I don't have the tine to change and test everything...it's a pretty dramatic change to add a stop with the organization I have. I will do that next time. But are you sure this can solve the problem? I tested normal mode a bit and still had some flashes. Thanks a lot!

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Oaktown
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Re: masks fastness / cpu performance / kill me

Post by Oaktown »

Make sure your layer transition time is set to 0 on your mask layer and that you use an alpha mode.

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