Decks not being listed alphabetically, WTF?????!!!!!

[VJair]

my suggestions are related to loading speed and not deck management, and all of those suggstions are ones which from personal experience have increased the performance of my machines.

your deck loading speed issue realy does seem to be a hardware issue and not software issue ( there also seems to be a correlation between slower loading on the mac than on the pc as highlighted in the other thread) you cannot expect 250 files to load instantly... its just not possible whatever software or hardware you use. this is a limitation of computer hardware which is why i sugested the work arounds - to decrease the stress on your machine.

using the same drive for your operating system and clips WILL make the loading time slower as it is being accessed for 2 different applications at the same time ( essetialy halving the possible data rate ) - this is the same for every software which plays back clips from a hard drive.

there is a thread on this foum which reccomends using an ssd drive, it includes statistics to demonstrate that using ssd is faster for clip loading
http://www.resolume.com/forum/viewtopic ... hilit=fire
and here is an external site which compares ssd and disk based drives which also confirms much faster loading times with ssd
http://www.notebookcheck.net/SSD-versus ... 750.0.html

my own experience of using an external ssd drive connected via eSATA is very positive i had a noticable increase in loading speed over using the internal 7200 rpm drive on both of my pc laptops ( i run multiple layers of 1080p footage ) and over the 8 years i have been vjing, the last 4 of which i have been a full time vj travelling around the world i have noticed a marked improvement in computer performance as the technology has increased.

as suggested on various sites, it is advisable to research the ssd drive before purchasing as there is variation in performance ( in the same way that there is variaton in performance in disk based drives ) if you want to get as near to instant loading as possible, you do need to spend mony on extras... standard equipment will not suffice.

it is also worth noting that the spcifications you have listed from the resolume website are the MINIMUM specifications

[ridiculoid]

Sync,

Is there any reason for using Avenue if Resolume 2 worked well for you? I bought a license for Avenue when it was first released but stuck with Resolume 2 for a long time after, simply because it was covering all my requirements at the time. I've now shifted to Avenue because of the advanced display stuff, but maybe you just don't need to at this point?

As mentioned already, the first thing to do to increase performance is separate your system and clip drives. From there it may be useful to test a little, find out what conditions Avenue does perform well on your machine and build a work-flow around that.

By the way, do you realise you'd be eligible for an educational discount of 50%? Makes it only 150 euro!

[Joris]

To keep this discussion moving forward, I think we can sum up your problems and suggestions for R3 as follows:
1. Deck loading is not fast enough
2. Decks should be added alphabetically
3. You'd like to be able to search the composition list by keypresses
4. You'd like to start the software without any decks loaded

Point 3 and 4 are excellent suggestions. Point 3 has actually already been mentioned a few times before in relation to searching for effects as well. We're running into some issues with it, but it's on the to do list. We could implement the same functionality for composition browsing or perhaps all the tabs in the browser window.

Point 2 is also valid. Yet the way its implemented, and on our own testing, decks always get displayed in the order in which they are created/added. Since your experience is different, I mentioned earlier you may be experiencing a bug, and we'd really like to get your specifications on file for that.

Regarding point 1, you are indeed not the only one to complain about this, and we put in a lot of time in it and considerably improved deckloading times on the 3.1.3 release. I also agree with you that it shouldn't be necessary to invest in extra hardware to run an application. However, from what I can tell from your posts, the amount of data you are loading is in the very high end and professional limits of the use of computer equipment. There is not much software out there that can read those amounts of data, while still maintaining any realtime output at all, and VJ software in general is cutting edge in this.

Regarding the way specific VJ softwares approach this issue, this is not really the time nor place to compare software. Regarding Resolume, it stores all the information for automation, clip display size, applied effects etc for each clip individually, and this information is all loaded when accessing a deck. This is a fundamental different approach from other programs. In my opinion, this is what makes software VJing so exciting. Since each program has different ways of doing things, each individual is free to choose which program best suits his or her style of VJ'ing.

There's a whole lot more we can say on the matter, but an internet forum is usually not the best place to go into great detail. I hope I addressed your points to some satisfaction, but if I missed anything, or you would like to discuss things further, you can always reach us on support[at]resolume[dot]com

Joris (I'm not Bart or Edwin, but very much a part of Resolume HQ)

[twitchdoktor]

Hi Joris, and thanks for the reply

Within a single composition, decks are stored in the order in which they are created.

if the decks were stored by creation order i wouldn't have this problem in the first place couse in my own folder organization each decks corresponds to a folder and the view of this folders in my operating system are organized by name, I was creating the decks according to the list in my operating system, meaning from A to Z (A first and Z last).

@Sync: correct if wrong but it sounds like what you are saying is that the alphabetizing is a secondary issue, even if you named your decks according to some other system they are not appearing in the order created?
Assuming that is true: @Joris or other Admin, isn't there a known issue regarding decks showing up in order other than creation order?

[werlin]

3. You'd like to be able to search the composition list by keypresses

Point 3 and 4 are excellent suggestions. Point 3 has actually already been mentioned a few times before in relation to searching for effects as well. We're running into some issues with it, but it's on the to do list. We could implement the same functionality for composition browsing or perhaps all the tabs in the browser window.

wouldnt it be better, since - as previously stated - a keysearch messes with the app's keymap, instead just to be able to group things (fx & comps) like it was with resolume2 fx?


btw sync, i hope the HD you have is not a WD Caviar Green...

[sleepytom]

I think the problem is actually composed of multiple parts.

Firstly Resolume 3 is not the same as Resolume 2. This means that some functions have changed or disappeared whilst others have been added. The consequence of this is that you have to change the way you work to get the most out of the new features and to work around problems you face. Media organisation is one aspect which has changed, and it requires a slightly different approach to how people used to do things in Resolume 2.

Resolume 3 is a new app and it has some bugs. To get these fixed the developers need clear, calm bug reports from users. A bug report sent via the feedback tab of preferences with the log file attached will get your bug report to the correct person. Be descriptive with the subject and try not to include unnecessary aggression such as marking bugs URGENT or WTF?

If the order of decks listed in a composition has a BUG (ie the function behaves in a way which differs from the description given in the manual, or the function behaves erratically under certain conditions) then sending a clear and calm bug report with details of the steps required to reproduce the bug will be very useful to the developers, If however it simply doesn't work as you would like then you are making a functionality request, and should be all the more careful to be clear about why you feel the functionality should be different.

Now regarding your issue. I've found (using 3.2.0 on W7X64) that the Compositions are listed in Alphabetical order and the Decks are listed per composition in the order that they are in the tabs of that composition. This seems totally normal to me.
The point where some confusion could come in is if you close a deck in the composition and then save the composition, this effectively shunts the deck to the end tab, changing the order of decks in the composition and making management somewhat harder.

I would suggest a functionality request for "close deck in-place", which would retain the decks position in the tab order allowing you to hide decks which are not needed but also to quickly get them back in a known location (somewhat akin to hiding / showing columns in a spreadsheet)

[VJsynC]

To keep this discussion moving forward, I think we can sum up your problems and suggestions for R3 as follows:
1. Deck loading is not fast enough
2. Decks should be added alphabetically
3. You'd like to be able to search the composition list by keypresses
4. You'd like to start the software without any decks loaded

Yes, you are correct!!! thank you very much

Point 2 is also valid. Yet the way its implemented, and on our own testing, decks always get displayed in the order in which they are created/added. Since your experience is different, I mentioned earlier you may be experiencing a bug, and we'd really like to get your specifications on file for that.

I'v sensed the log file trough feedback tab with a little description this is what you wanted right?

[sleepytom]

Sync - can you confirm that the Deck order behaviour is as i describe?

I've found (using 3.2.0 on W7X64) that the Compositions are listed in Alphabetical order and the Decks are listed per composition in the order that they are in the tabs of that composition. This seems totally normal to me.
The point where some confusion could come in is if you close a deck in the composition and then save the composition, this effectively shunts the deck to the end tab, changing the order of decks in the composition and making management somewhat harder.

If your really finding that the decks are listed in a random order then this is a bug and should be reported as such. If your deck behave the same as mine then i don't think its a bug, it just doesn't work the way you'd like it to.

[VJsynC]

Hi tom,
no it not as you described, what you'v said i also find out after a hole afternoon of troubleshooting the thing.
It is probably a bug in mac os versions, don't know, but indeed when you close the decks and then you save it they go to the bottom, i'v realized that and then i deleted the hole composition and created a new one, three times.

when you save the hole composition and then close res3 and open again the seem to gain live and rearrange themselves randomly.

by the way, regarding to my explosive behavior previously, that you correctly mentioned, i was just pissed of by the type of answer that was given to me after indeed a hole calm and constructive behavior that a had when i started this threat, I would like to apology to everyone for my irrational behavior and irony about this.
but this is just because i love resolume, for 5 years i used resolume, teach resolume to other people and i know that many many people bought resolume because of my recommendation, and deep in my feelings i know that some of this changes in resolume are simply not fair , and thats ok to me, but i also know that are other things that can be improved and will not change at all the hole new policy of resolume layout or new improvements.
By the way, i´v send the log file with a description trough feedback tab, now let's wait for the response.

Regards,
Sync.

[DAS BEN]

hi all

organizing the decks is a really important issue.
during the years with resolume, i created over 450 decks and still so many clips are waiting.
i organized them in folders, named like electronic, disco, hiphop, monsters, sex, nature, riot, backgrounds, textanimation, town ....
if you have ever been vj on a mixed stuff party, you know, that you will never know what comes next, maybe old jungle or oldschool hiphop or what ever. the song is maybe 3 minutes long. so you need fast access to your decks. the last vj job was a support for a balkan concert, but hey they decided to put me on the rock n roll floor instead. i am doing for different musik different stuff, and there are a lot of different styles going on.
i know where my clips are stored, but i need a working deck.
so decks should be at least stored in alphabetical order and folders are great.
also should it be possibel to save a deck seperatly, not only the whole composition, because this can make a huge mess.
ok why not using the compositions as folders ?
i am already doing so, but this is just a workaround.
for me the concept of composition is, to store overall parameters for specific jobs.
the standart 4:3 screen, a 16:9 setup, a setup for a mapping job and so on.

so listen to a heavy user, still working with the old resolume.

see you at the fusion
DAS BEN