Ability to change advanced output presets without going into menu.

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VipsbKris
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Ability to change advanced output presets without going into menu.

Post by VipsbKris » Fri Dec 29, 2017 14:42

I would like to be able to change the presets in advanced outputs while live on the main screen. By being able to change them on the fly I would be able to reorient my lighting within the presets to achieve different effects, switch users, or enable or disable screens or lighting. Also the ability to assign midi control to this would be a great addition.

Babcom
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Re: Ability to change advanced output presets without going into menu.

Post by Babcom » Mon Jan 14, 2019 17:05

+1 on this.

Or is there any other way of changing some led universe setups for example? Id love to be able to have a new advanced output for every new deck or so... In our next show we will move the led fixtures quite often and change the position of them from horisontal to vertical etc.

Any work arounds on this?

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Re: Ability to change advanced output presets without going into menu.

Post by Joris » Mon Jan 14, 2019 17:38

Could you share a specific example of what you're trying to achieve? Unless the fixtures are being reprogrammed to a different address or objects are physically moved out of alignment during show, there's a lot you can do by just triggering content to be on or off at the right time.

Babcom
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Re: Ability to change advanced output presets without going into menu.

Post by Babcom » Fri Jan 18, 2019 14:57

Yes Joris. Thats the problem, I will physically move them a lot in our next show. Have a bunch of 1m sticks that will be positioned with magnets around the stage. Sometimes in a vertical position and sometimes in a horisontal... So different Advanced output setups would make a night and day difference!

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Re: Ability to change advanced output presets without going into menu.

Post by Joris » Fri Jan 18, 2019 15:09

I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I meant that only if a projection mapped object is physically moved out of alignment, it would really require a change of presets. There is no other way to change the output transformation. The same goes for changing the start address of a LED fixture.

Physically moving a LED fixture to a different orientation doesn't change its addressing, just the pixels it would need to sample. This can be done in the composition.

It would really be useful to have an actual practical use case if we want to properly discuss this.

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Re: Ability to change advanced output presets without going into menu.

Post by Zoltán » Fri Jan 18, 2019 15:35

Babcom wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 14:57
I will physically move them a lot in our next show.
Do these sticks support HTP merging by any chance?
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Re: Ability to change advanced output presets without going into menu.

Post by Babcom » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:59

True Joris, that the addressing does not change when they are moved. But from what I understand, you can just have one setup for all the lumiverses and fixtures. So that if I want to mirror a video on to the Pixel tapes, they need to be in the same position for the video to be presented correctly, or?
Skärmavbild 2019-01-21 kl. 10.51.35.jpg
Skärmavbild 2019-01-21 kl. 10.52.12.jpg
Skärmavbild 2019-01-21 kl. 10.53.30.jpg
As an example I would love to be able to change the position of the fixtures as the images shows here. Via osc or similar... Is there a work around for this?


Zoltan, i am building the sticks my self, so they don't have any fancy features except for portability and magnets... but I'm curious about what HTP merging is. Could you describe how it works?

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Re: Ability to change advanced output presets without going into menu.

Post by Oaktown » Mon Jan 21, 2019 16:03

... but I'm curious about what HTP merging is. Could you describe how it works?
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HTP merging would mean that you combine 2 DMX signals and the Highest value Takes Precedence.

Typical merging options would be Highest value Takes Precedence, Lowest Takes Precedence, Latest Takes Precedence, and Backup.

The merging would not happen at the fixture level but by using DMX Merger hardware such as the one by Elm Video Technologie which would take two or more DMX ports in and have one DMX port out to control your fixtures.

Note that the Elm Merger also has an Append mode which lets you combine two different DMX signals into one universe so that you can control different fixtures with different controllers.

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Re: Ability to change advanced output presets without going into menu.

Post by Joris » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:37

you can just have one setup for all the lumiverses and fixtures. So that if I want to mirror a video on to the Pixel tapes, they need to be in the same position for the video to be presented correctly
Well, the Input Selection position just defines which area of the composition is being used to sample pixels from. Changing those pixels in the composition would mean you sample different pixels and thereby output different pixels. For instance, your third look could also be created by keeping the sample orientation the same, but rotating the left half of the comp 45 degrees clockwise, and the right half 45 degrees counter clockwise.

Now I understand that that is not always an option, and quite probably more work than just setting the sample position and orientation. Personally, I'd struggle quite a bit to make your looks without resorting to some complicated router structure or custom FFGLs.

So yeah, we need a solution for this.

From our end, we don't like the idea of using presets. When switching a preset, a lot of work happens behind the scenes. You don't notice, but each of your outputs is destroyed and recreated and re-assigned to your monitor. Every Art-Net connections is closed and re-opened. Even when the output setup doesn't change. As you can imagine, this is an incredible risky operation that we don't want to expose to the user mid show.

The idea of having shortcuts for slice properties has also been discussed before. We don't like that approach because it means you'd be creating an exponential amount of shortcuts. You'd have to start keeping track of two shortcut presets. In your case, you'd need a second application to send different presets values via OSC or MIDI too. Sure, if you spent two nights programming everything, you'd be able to cobble something together. But you'd be the only one that understands it. Troubleshooting would be a nightmare. Small changes to the setup would require starting from scratch. We like Resolume to be easy to understand and fun to use, and this doesn't sound like that at all.

We like the idea of having your composition be the state of your output. Just like you can easily switch between clips to change the output, you should be able to switch between looks just as easily. Just like you can see which clips are playing and what other clips are available, we'd like to have the same overview of what the current look is and what other looks are available. We'd like to sequence looks using the autopilot or next/prev triggers. We'd like to fade between looks using transitions. We'd like to apply looks on the composition, individual layers, or even individual clips. We'd like to further process looks using effects and transformations. All stuff that becomes possible when we have looks in the composition.

We've made a start with the Slice Transforms, which create different looks by positioning content exactly centered in your slices. What's missing is more control over which pixels end up in those slices.

It could be that we add more control to Slice Transforms. It could be that we add advanced transform effects that let you do the type of transforms that you can do in the advanced output, but on clips. It could be that we add something like snapshots of your looks. There's a lot of ways we can take it. We might even buckle and go with some preset system after all. Whichever way we decide on, it would be a monster feature and we don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot by acting rashly.

TL;DR We understand what you want to do. We understand how changing presets or having shortcuts sound like a good solution for it. We respectfully disagree. Hopefully I was able to explain why.

Joris
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Re: Ability to change advanced output presets without going into menu.

Post by Joris » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:40

And the reason I insisted on an example, is because depending on what you need, a lot is already possible: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18105&p=73546#p73512

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