Need help with project hardware & software

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fingerblastj
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Need help with project hardware & software

Post by fingerblastj »

im working on this new project in a new venue being constructed.

the venue has (2) 60ft wide walls (across from one another) that the owner wants to project on via ultra short throw projector.

by ultra short throw, we're talking less than a foot away.

the images on the walls will mirror one another.

the venue does not have any windows, so sunlight wont be an issue, but he plans on putting some led uplighting and moving heads in certain spots.

he will also be creating an elevated booth in a corner of the room with all the wiring for all the computing hardware necessary to run everything smoothly.

he may add the 3rd wall that connects the 2 walls later down the road but this is not part of the immediate project.

i will be creating the video content for him via adobe after effects & premiere pro.

i create them in 3840x2160 and maybe even higher if need be, depending on the answers i receive here.

my questions are:

1. are there any ultra short throw projectors on the market that can cover a 60ft wide area without needing multiple projectors and blending?

2. if blending is necessary, how many projectors would be needed for each wall?

3. what software would be needed for blending? can it be done in resolume alone?

4. in terms of inputs, what wiring would you send for signals from the booth to each projector? cat 6, cat 7, hdsdi with hdmi converters at the projector locations? looking for the most bulletproof way without sacrificing quality.

5. what kind of hardware is necessary at the booth?

6. what kind of mac/pc would you recommend?

7. what kind of specs are necessary for smooth playback?

8. is an external gpu necessary?

9. any blackmagic components?

10. what type of external storage system would you recommend for a ton of content that is big on size (16tb or more) and fast on read/write?

any help or advice would be much appreciated

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He2neg
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Re: Need help with project hardware & software

Post by He2neg »

How much are you willing to pay for that work you want to have here?

Im on of the last not willing to help and anwser a few questions but this is a full planing and product research order ;)

This is to much for just a forum...

Short:
you ll need multiple projectores ( take alook at lens factors of the short throw models you find)
I guess for 60ft with only 1ft distance you ll need around 30 and this cant be handled by a simple system

i would think about led wall installation instead
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fingerblastj
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Re: Need help with project hardware & software

Post by fingerblastj »

yea this is a hell of a project. i might have went a little overboard on the help request lol

i appreciate the response

budget is of some concern. i didnt get a hard number. but if i has to guess, somewhere in the 20k range.

he already own a video wall system but doesnt want to use it. he wants that for mobile event production.

in terms of getting the video signal to each projector, can i daisy chain?

do you know anything about hdbaset? im just finding out about this and it looks promising.

lastly, are people still using blendy vj software or is the blend being done on resolume?

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Arvol
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Re: Need help with project hardware & software

Post by Arvol »

If both projectors are showing the same thing I would use SDI and a DA. If you're over 1080p I would use HDMI Fiber and a HDMI splitter.
Does your projectos have to be 4K?
Stay away from blackmagic if you can.
PC will get you better performance for price of investment.
Your message was pretty long so I would start with these and see if this gets you what you need.
I'm a LED systems tech and systems infrastructure tech type of guy, so I won't be much use on what projectors and glass to use.

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He2neg
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Re: Need help with project hardware & software

Post by He2neg »

Arvol wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 15:23 If both projectors are showing the same thing I would use SDI and a DA. If you're over 1080p I would use HDMI Fiber and a HDMI splitter.
Does your projectos have to be 4K?
Stay away from blackmagic if you can.
PC will get you better performance for price of investment.
Your message was pretty long so I would start with these and see if this gets you what you need.
I'm a LED systems tech and systems infrastructure tech type of guy, so I won't be much use on what projectors and glass to use.

Mapping / blending and then 2x the same image ;) I dont think you will get it right =P

Also there are not 2 but 30 projectors on each side of the venue.... the more often i read this the more hillarious it is (the whole thing not your respond)
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fingerblastj
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Re: Need help with project hardware & software

Post by fingerblastj »

Arvol wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 15:23 If both projectors are showing the same thing I would use SDI and a DA. If you're over 1080p I would use HDMI Fiber and a HDMI splitter.
Does your projectos have to be 4K?
Stay away from blackmagic if you can.
PC will get you better performance for price of investment.
Your message was pretty long so I would start with these and see if this gets you what you need.
I'm a LED systems tech and systems infrastructure tech type of guy, so I won't be much use on what projectors and glass to use.
yea i was looking at 12g-sdi. theyre cheap and less finicky than hdmi.

whats a DA?

yea, projectors must be 4k. i can play with the distance a little bit to minimize the throw and maybe use less projectors.

fingerblastj
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Re: Need help with project hardware & software

Post by fingerblastj »

He2neg wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 15:59
Arvol wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 15:23 If both projectors are showing the same thing I would use SDI and a DA. If you're over 1080p I would use HDMI Fiber and a HDMI splitter.
Does your projectos have to be 4K?
Stay away from blackmagic if you can.
PC will get you better performance for price of investment.
Your message was pretty long so I would start with these and see if this gets you what you need.
I'm a LED systems tech and systems infrastructure tech type of guy, so I won't be much use on what projectors and glass to use.

Mapping / blending and then 2x the same image ;) I dont think you will get it right =P

Also there are not 2 but 30 projectors on each side of the venue.... the more often i read this the more hillarious it is (the whole thing not your respond)
thanks for the confidence boost lol

we're gonna cut down on the number of projectors.

basically what he wants to do is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0yrlVSCSWA

minus the 3rd wall, just the walls across from one another and maybe in the future adding the 3rd wall

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Re: Need help with project hardware & software

Post by He2neg »

You ll need a seperate output for each projector, becouse of the mapping adjustments

Also you ll need a bigger distance to the wall 0.8 lens throw (like in the video) results in:

Distance / 0.8 = picture Wide (and dont forgett the blending area)

You ll find some 0.5 lens throw models maybe, but searching can be a big task. I wouldnt go without lens shift for this project. Also the hight of the picture need to fit or you lose a lot of brightness & pixels....
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Arvol
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Re: Need help with project hardware & software

Post by Arvol »

12G SDI is super flaky, I wouldn't invest into that technology, It just doesn't work well.

30 projectors per side :o .

Each PC can handle about 11 outputs from 3 different GPU's. But since you're wanting each projector to have it's own source, that's 11 4K textures each PC would have to handle. That's going to be over 91 million pixels. At that point you're going to be over the render count per GPU. So even with a fully loaded PC, you would need 3 PC's per side (6 in total) to do this, but since you're over your pixel count per rendering GPU this is a moot point.

Realistically you would want 3 4K outputs per PC with 1 GPU to keep your PC happy. But this means you would need 10 PC's per side (20 in total), so now comes the kicker.... Sync.
You could get away with this if you're using LTC to drive all of the content, but that means a LOT of work with your content to get it all working the way you want. You could use a Dante virtual sound card to help alleviate some hardware as well. But, if you're not using LTC, your sync isn't going to happen which defeats the entire purpose of this setup.

Also to be in sync, you will need a Quadro series GPU in each machine. And don't forget to add the Sync card in with a black burst generator driving the clocks.

Just running number's in my head:
$2k per GPU (RTX5000) x's 20 GPU's: $40,000
$1.2k per PC to house the GPU x's 20: $24,000
$1k per Sync Card x's 20: $20,000
$955 per Resolume key x's 20: $19,100
Total in PC hardware: $103,100

So not including shipping, tax, cables(fiber), fiber converters, content, labor cost, projectors, lenses, projection canvases, power, etc, you're just looking at over $100k in PC components alone to make this happen.
Does this seem like a realistic goal to approach for you and your client?

Again, you will need all of your content to be in sync using LTC and all clips fired via something like OSC.
This means no one can just roll in with a laptop and play on your system or nothing will be in sync.

Going back to my original question... Does it have to be 4k per projector? If you can get away with 1080p, thing just got a LOT cheaper! You can now use multi out SDI cards with a black burst for sync and use 3G-SDI for projectors and cabling

Or if nothing needs to be in sync (and you'll get screen tearing) just use a bunch of 3G-sdi and content that works for out of sync screens)

30 per side seems a bit excessive IMO.
Here's the Mirage in NY, from an after party of a festival I worked a few years back. They are doing about 4-5 projectors per side and is being driven from a Touch system that about 3 people know how to use, BUT it allows for integration from other users, which is a big thing. and since the canvas is so wide, most people just duplicate their outputs. Also, they aren't using 4K ;)

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