Need new rig - Leaving MBP for PC - HELP ME<3

Bro, does your rig even lift?
resolumejunkie
Hasn't felt like this about software in a long time
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 21:38

Re: Need new rig - Leaving MBP for PC - HELP ME<3

Post by resolumejunkie »

Arvol wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 23:20 I've used these machine for 16+ hours a day, for 5+ days in a row, outside, uncovered in direct sunlight with temps well over 100 degrees Fahrenheit.
Where in America is there 16 hours of direct sunlight daily

?

User avatar
Arvol
Might as well join the team
Posts: 2772
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 17:36
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: Need new rig - Leaving MBP for PC - HELP ME<3

Post by Arvol »

El Paso Texas, Right on the Mexican border.

resolumejunkie
Hasn't felt like this about software in a long time
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 21:38

Re: Need new rig - Leaving MBP for PC - HELP ME<3

Post by resolumejunkie »

Arvol wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 04:39El Paso Texas, Right on the Mexican border.
Ah cool! Makes sense! Happy to hear the Razer 3080 is such a strong performer. I might even consider selling my i9 with two 2080ti that I use for 16mm archival film scanning (Moviestuff Retroscan). The pair of 2080ti with NeatVideo in Resolve running on CUDA cores is very fast! Faster than any Mac I have ever used. I always hesitated with the mobile Nvidia stuff. But, if it's as good as you say, I could pay for it easily as a lateral move away from the workstation and have a smaller form factor, which would be terrific! Thank you for all of the info, Arvol! I always try to use the right tool for the job. Mac is definitely the wrong tool for anything optimized for CUDA cores. That's for sure!

Also.. speaking of things optimized for CUDA cores, you wrote:
Arvol wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 04:39"I can see there being 100 flavors of applications in the future because "x" brand is using "y" type of processor to be special and different than the other competitors... lol."
That's exactly where things are headed, and, in fact, have been for some time already with CUDA.
Arvol wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 04:39 It's a glorified cellphone processor
And, why wouldn't I want a glorified cellphone processor?

The iPhone 13 is rumored to support 4K60 10-bit Apple ProRes HDR recording and playback! Resolume on an M1 struggles to playback this sort of file at all. Yet, an iPhone will be able to record and play it back effortlessly, and with live, real-time effects? Hmm.

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/10/ip ... tait-mode/

Oh, and I will note that Resolume is missing on the list of ProRes Authorized Products:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200321

Perhaps whatever manner in which Resolume is decoding ProRes isn't optimized, either.

That wouldn't surprise me at this point.

Additionally, Resolume isn't even utilizing half of what a 3080 offers:
no utilization of tensor cores or ray tracing cores. It's kind of sad.

Apple, on the other hand, is making great use of the ML-cores (like tensor cores, sort of) in the iPhone, by way of the real-time rotoscoping of the camera to create a depth map, and also using the ML-trained bokeh effect, which was created by replicating the most pleasing lenses Apple could find. The attention to detail is frankly breathtaking:

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/10 ... perfection

That's just one example of how one company (Apple) is fully utilizing the capabilities of the hardware in software.

Whereas, again, with an Nvidia 3080, you're paying a bundle for extra capability on a GPU die you can't even use in Resolume, cause Resolume does not use tensor cores or ray-tracing cores. At least as far as I am aware.
Arvol wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 04:39that has NO dedicated GPU
This kind of misses the point. The advantage of all SoC chip designs is: low-latency communication between CPU, GPU, ML accelerators and other processing units.

Additionally, with a shared memory architecture, you need half as much RAM with an SoC. People like us are not running huge databases with 1.5TB of RAM. We just aren't. A shared memory architecture with 64GB of RAM should be plenty for video people..

But, the real story with the GPU cores on the M1 is the way the performance scales linearly. 8 cores can grow into 32 cores quickly (one year), and 32 cores can rapidly grow into 128 cores (another year) with a chiplet-style packaging. Software performance enhancement is simplified for developers due to the way the Metal API has been written to abstract away from the chip designs.

Apple is doing all the optimization legwork behind-the-scenes.

This is also true for the CPU. Apple can take regular code, and send it to a co-processor.

So, for example, if Apple someday makes a new co-processor to handle, say, linear algebra, access to that co-processor would be abstracted away from the developer, and the Swift or Objective-C code would be compiled in such a way to utilize the new co-processor without the developer even knowing about it. This actually happened with the M1, interestingly enough:

https://medium.com/swlh/apples-m1-secre ... 99492fc1e1

Of course, all speculation at this point. Fair enough. But, as an API, I think Metal has some real interesting benefits compared to other approaches. It's certainly easier to use. And, Apple can always find new, interesting ways of abstracting away from their silicon to improve performance in a much more granular way than using a CPU from one company and a GPU from another company. Apple has complete, total control to provide an integrated solution.

It's no secret that Nvidia thinks this is all a good idea, because why else would Nvidia be trying to buy ARM? It is a good idea. It is a great design. If you have a prejudice against Apple products on account of them being poor performers compared to CUDA for, I don't know, the last decade or more, and, before that, oh, I don't know, being behind x86 since about 1990, then, at least be excited about the new wave of silicon design, that uses Advanced Risc Machine SoCs with integrated coprocessors to achieve amazing, spectacular results! Soon, Nvidia will probably offer SoCs and SoICs designed just like this, too. : )

The future is bright for "there being 100 flavors of applications in the future because "x" brand is using "y" type of processor" but the key here is software that abstracts away from these architecture differences and makes it easy for developers to make software in the future. In this regard, Apple has a huge advantage and is way way way ahead of the curve.
Arvol wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 04:39and NO support for external PCIe.
Re: support for external PCIe, you're talking about the lack of AMD or Nvidia GPU drivers, right? Of course Apple isn't messing with drivers for cards that aren't optimized for Metal.

It's building its own GPU cores that are optimized for Metal instead. That's a business decision. Right now, it makes the M1 uncompetitive for anything with high GPU usage.

Agreed. I mean, that's obvious, right?

But, the Metal API is really easy to use and get great scalable results with. With new M-series chips, the capability of the platform will be enhanced over time and developers will be able to take advantage of those improvements much faster than they could if using Vulkan or OpenGL. At least as far as I understand things anyway.
Arvol wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 04:39and NO support for external PCIe.
But, of course, external PCIe does exist in the form of Thunderbolt 3. As you're well aware, Thunderbolt 3 is limited to 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes... hardly enough for any beefy GPU to begin with. There would be no point in supporting eGPUs when the interconnection is only 4 PCIe lanes. So, I can totally understand why they skipped it, considering how disappointing eGPUs are in general.

But, Thunderbolt 3 does work with PCIe cards, such as the Kona 4, Kona 5, etc.

AJA has drivers for those cards now. As does Blackmagic for the Decklink cards. for M1.
Arvol wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 04:39a trend I have noticed about you is that you sure do love you some M1 and NDI (2 things that most people with paying clients won't use or trust their shows to, so you are defiantly in the minority here with your opinions.)
I think NDI and M1 are useful for basically one thing:

Inexpensively getting (9) 720p24 sliced NDI outputs from a 3840x2160p24 Resolume composition and going to (9) Apple TVs with a 23.98 or 24p HDMI output. That's it. If someone needs bunches of lower-res, lower-fps outputs from a single, cheap computer. That's it.

Beyond that, I think people should use something else.
Arvol wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 04:39You've been apart of this community for 51 days, I've been here for 5,845 days.
I look forward to continue learning more from you!

I think you'll find my interests are more video technology generally, not specifically Resolume. Even though I own an Arena license, it's far from being the only tool in the toolbox.....

Even though I own an 18-core i9 with a pair of 2080ti, Windows 10 is far from the only OS I use. Even though I own 3 M1s, macOS is far from the only OS I use. Also have some some OnLogic mini Ubuntu boxes. Raspberry Pi's. We're all the same, Arvol. We all use different tools for different things.

One thing I am confident about, though:

A market opportunity exists for someone to make a macOS-only multi-channel video playback software for live events, with lots of outputs via SDI or NDI, that is built natively with Apple Frameworks like Core Video, Core Animation, Core ML, and Video Toolbox, and the performance will be amazing on a $549 Apple M1 Mac mini. I wish that company was Resolume. But, I think they're just not interested in that market or, really, that approach to platform-specific software development in general. As a result, Resolume needs a really powerful machine to work well. Which is fine. But, it's just unfortunate. From my perspective. That's all. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Resolume IS cool software. On a $1,500 - $3,000 computer.

Zoltán
Team Resolume
Posts: 7088
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 13:08
Location: Székesfehérvár, Hungary

Re: Need new rig - Leaving MBP for PC - HELP ME<3

Post by Zoltán »

Ohh, that poor horse...
Software developer, Sound Engineer,
Control Your show with ”Enter” - multiple Resolume servers at once - SMPTE/MTC column launch
try for free: http://programs.palffyzoltan.hu

resolumejunkie
Hasn't felt like this about software in a long time
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 21:38

Re: Need new rig - Leaving MBP for PC - HELP ME<3

Post by resolumejunkie »

Zoltán wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 20:50 Ohh, that poor horse...
Haha. Hey, I really no longer blame Resolume, the company, for the state of its products. If I was a talented developer, I would leave the Netherlands for the USA, where starting salaries are 3x that offered there. Why earn $40-50k there when you can earn $120-500k in the USA? I mean, Netflix is paying a half a million bucks a year!

No brainer. Talk about brain drain~!

User avatar
Arvol
Might as well join the team
Posts: 2772
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 17:36
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: Need new rig - Leaving MBP for PC - HELP ME<3

Post by Arvol »

resolumejunkie wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 23:37
Zoltán wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 20:50 Ohh, that poor horse...
Haha. Hey, I really no longer blame Resolume, the company, for the state of its products. If I was a talented developer, I would leave the Netherlands for the USA, where starting salaries are 3x that offered there. Why earn $40-50k there when you can earn $120-500k in the USA? I mean, Netflix is paying a half a million bucks a year!

No brainer. Talk about brain drain~!
Funny I was about to leave the US for Holland before the pandemic. Netherlands is 100x's better than the US (imo).

resolumejunkie
Hasn't felt like this about software in a long time
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 21:38

Re: Need new rig - Leaving MBP for PC - HELP ME<3

Post by resolumejunkie »

Arvol wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 00:20Funny I was about to leave the US for Holland before the pandemic. Netherlands is 100x's better than the US (imo).
Since you claim to research everything so heavily...

https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/soft ... nd-europe/

"Silicon Valley companies opening EU offices have been a huge source of moving the market upwards... The total compensation packages in the US have been shockingly high from the perspective of EU software engineers: and many engineers from the EU have packed up and left, seeing the wide gap.

An example is a Dutch engineer I know leaving their €80,000/year ($94,000) job in the Netherlands for an initially $350,000/year position at Lyft. Following promotions, they are now making more than $450,000/year (€378,000/year). Yes, healthcare and the cost of living are more expensive in the US: but this person has told me their only regret is they had to leave home to get paid their worth."

BOTTOM LINE:

Resolume can't get the best and brightest for €40,000/year when American companies are offering €378,000/year. I don't have much hope for this software.

Zoltán
Team Resolume
Posts: 7088
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 13:08
Location: Székesfehérvár, Hungary

Re: Need new rig - Leaving MBP for PC - HELP ME<3

Post by Zoltán »

resolumejunkie wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 00:32 Resolume can't get the best and brightest.... I don't have much hope for this software.
Why are you here then?

There could be a lot other things you could do with your time. And ours.
Software developer, Sound Engineer,
Control Your show with ”Enter” - multiple Resolume servers at once - SMPTE/MTC column launch
try for free: http://programs.palffyzoltan.hu

Post Reply