So...2016 Arena 5....smooth video playback????

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yochee
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Re: So...2016 Arena 5....smooth video playback????

Post by yochee » Tue Jan 17, 2017 14:41

hey there, +1

we did a facade mapping last year using 2 fullHD projectors, the video was something like 1920x2160 (with and without sound). As there was slightly sticky playback in resolume ith DXV and my collegues were not satisfied, I tried playing a mp4-file with Visution Mapio which worked out well.
We then sent the video stream from Mapio to Resolume via Syphon and the playback was still running smoothly!

(BTW: With Mapio we could also multiply the rendering resolution from 1920x2160 to 3840x4360 for smoother antialiasing)

AFAIK Mapio is using FFmpeg under the GNU LGPLv2.1, avcodec version: 57.48.101
QtAV library under the GNU LGPLv2.1, so it can also run DXV on the GPU. I don't know if they had this last year already, but the playback is always very smooth and not limited to DXV. Would maybe be an interesting update for Resolume

Foresight
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Re: So...2016 Arena 5....smooth video playback????

Post by Foresight » Fri May 19, 2017 04:01

Me three...In the pursuit of perfect playback...

Is there really no way to for Resolume to render frames consistently?

Running intel 750 series SSDs & Quadro GPU's, The servers are spec'd highly for video playback.

But still on those (not so)smooth pans and moments Arena noticeably drops frames or stutters every 2 seconds or so.
The frame rate monitor in Resolume never goes below 50fps but you can see that it drops frames or has trouble rendering smooth motion.

I have tried every conceivable combination of settings between the Nvidia control panel and Resolume, Codecs etc etc.

Can someone from Resolume jump in here? Is this something that is getting worked on?... I just want to play one video perfectly.. Just 1.. Please...

Joris
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Re: So...2016 Arena 5....smooth video playback????

Post by Joris » Fri May 19, 2017 09:15

The problem is not your GPU settings or which build of FFMPEG is used for playback.

The problem is how to decide what frame to show.

Resolume is designed so that it doesn't matter that you play a video forwards, then backwards, skip to 2/3rds in the video with a cue point, then play it 2.33 times as fast, then set it synced to BPM, picking a new random part every beat.

To achieve this, we're constantly calculating what frame to show based on the current settings. This is a technique known as seeking. In regular timeline mode, this means that we calculate what frame will be next, based on the current frame, the current speed setting and at what fps Resolume is currently rendering.

As you can imagine, being off by just a few microseconds in this calculation can affect the displayed frame length and create what you can perceive as micro-stutters:
Fame syncing.png
(This picture assumes your monitor refresh rate, Resoulme's fps and your clips fps are at exact multiples of each other. You can imagine that the difference between displayed frame lengths becomes considerably worse when rendering 23.98 fps video, while Resolume is rendering at 42 fps to a 50Hz monitor. Also, it assumes you're not using sound because then the audio buffer size and refresh rate comes into play as well).

Most video playback engines solve this problem by not seeking on every frame. Instead, they let the video 'push' a new frame when it's available. Obviously this is problematic when you cannot assume that the video plays back at its default speed.

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Oaktown
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Re: So...2016 Arena 5....smooth video playback????

Post by Oaktown » Fri May 19, 2017 14:17

Joris, thanks for the detailed explanation. In your diagram, what would be the reason why Resolume would render too fast which would result in having to hold a frame for an extra cycle and skip one cycle for the next one?

For a lot of the corporate, theatrical and installation work I do I use the default speed and playback smoothness is paramount for my clients so there would there be a way to offer an option to switch between seek and push modes at the clip level?

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Re: So...2016 Arena 5....smooth video playback????

Post by Joris » Fri May 19, 2017 14:41

what would be the reason why Resolume would render too fast which would result in having to hold a frame for an extra cycle and skip one cycle for the next one?
Any of one thousand different processes starting and stopping each render cycle. Remember that we're talking about the predicted time that the render cycle will complete, and which frame should be visible at that time.
would there be a way to offer an option to switch between seek and push modes at the clip level
That would be one obvious solution, yes.

Unfortunately this gives all sorts of unexpected behaviour, since it involves handing complete control to the playback engine, and thereby we're forced to bypass other steps in the pipeline. For instance, audio playback will use the system settings, rather than Resolume's settings. This means that by changing a clip to this playback mode, all of a sudden your audio will be routed to the system default and completely ignore the volume and master faders in Resolume.

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Oaktown
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Re: So...2016 Arena 5....smooth video playback????

Post by Oaktown » Fri May 19, 2017 15:25

Unfortunately this gives all sorts of unexpected behaviour, since it involves handing complete control to the playback engine, and thereby we're forced to bypass other steps in the pipeline. For instance, audio playback will use the system settings, rather than Resolume's settings. This means that by changing a clip to this playback mode, all of a sudden your audio will be routed to the system default and completely ignore the volume and master faders in Resolume.
As long as I know what to expect and it's predictable, I'd be willing to give up some control as a trade off for playback smoothness especially for corporate and installation work.

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cosmowe
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Re: So...2016 Arena 5....smooth video playback????

Post by cosmowe » Fri May 19, 2017 18:03

me too :) surprisingly :roll:
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Meptik
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Re: So...2016 Arena 5....smooth video playback????

Post by Meptik » Sun May 21, 2017 18:17

I can ageee on needing solid playback for corporate settings. It's really difficult to find a solution, honesty anywhere, that can 'flawlessly' (or close to it) playback with out stuttering. I completely understand that there are many feats to overcome in accomplishing this. But I would personally prefer better playback performance vs new features on our end as the majority of our shows are high number of outputs and high pixel count. Many thanks -

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Re: So...2016 Arena 5....smooth video playback????

Post by renanmarc » Sun May 21, 2017 18:51

One more voice to the chorus, I would also rather trade new features for a smooth playback in the next Resolume releases as the vast majority of the events I use Resolume for are corporate/theater.

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Re: So...2016 Arena 5....smooth video playback????

Post by drazkers » Mon May 22, 2017 00:07

Until resolume 6 comes out I have a basic formula. If the budget is small enough in a corporate I use rack resolume servers. If the client is paying enough and you absolutely cannot have any stutter I use D3.

I structure everything so if a client wants to knit pick I tell them the cost of upgrading to D3. Every time I've had the client say' 'yah it's not that noticeable, I just wanted to know what the options are'. Then I get rehired for the next show.

I always see resolume in a corporate environment as the not perfect solution with a shit tone of features. Especially compared to a hippo or D3. I have to remind myself what was resolume created for? Who was the target market? If I get sent super slow horizontal content for a corporate I just say resolume isn't right for this. Knowing your tools strengths and weaknesses goes a long way.

Edit:
I also think if resolume needs to hire more people for a corporate focus they should retool avenue with better mapping and make arena a corporate edition for 5k in cost. Still a crazy deal compared to Ai dongles. Then when people pay they're properly equipped for that market.

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