ProRes support in Avenue R6b3 -Windows

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KristofNys
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Re: ProRes support in Avenue R6b3 -Windows

Post by KristofNys »

So i noticed that prores playback is still possible in Avenue 6 b3 on Os X. I guess Resolume uses AVfoundation on OSX for certain file types. So there is a difference in the render engine on Windows VS mac, and i don't really see why including the "quicktime"option would be such a big issue. (as it was possible in the past anyway...)

You might say , just use DXV, but asking external content creators to use this codec is not always an option.
You need quicktime on a Windows anyway, as there is no other way (or i might be missing something? ) to encode files to DXV anyway ... So on one hand quicktime is being dumped (that i can understand ...), but on the other hand the alternatieve (DXV ) also still needs Quicktime ....

Joris
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Re: ProRes support in Avenue R6b3 -Windows

Post by Joris »

Sometimes moving forward means things get broken.

QTkit was awesome, but it is obviously not a viable solution anymore. Sure, we can spend time on putting it back in. Which would require a 32 bit process to run inside a 64 bit process, which is all sorts of nigh impossible.

Or we could that spend time on moving forward and seeing how you can export DXV files without needing QTKit at all. I think you can guess how that cookie's gonna crumble.

Ideally, Apple will let us in to their club and you'll get native Prores on PC. That's up to them though, not us.

KristofNys
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Re: ProRes support in Avenue R6b3 -Windows

Post by KristofNys »

I guess it would be a good thing to give a list of which codecs are supported on which OS , as this means that on windows , the supported codecs are more limited , and on OSX it can decode everything the windows version can , PLUS everything that can be decoded by OSX.... (for example DNxHD also doesn't work on windows...) (or am i missing something here ?)

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subpixel
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Re: ProRes support in Avenue R6b3 -Windows

Post by subpixel »

Devices such as the Atomos Ninja Assassin (the field recorder that I use to capture 4K video from my Sony a7S camera) record to ProRes (and also DNxHR).

https://www.atomos.com/ninja-assassin

Being able to play high quality video without a lengthy transcode process can be fairly important.

Apparently Notch have built their own GPU-based DXV encoder. Is there a possibility for Resolume to license that from Notch?

KristofNys
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Re: ProRes support in Avenue R6b3 -Windows

Post by KristofNys »

exactly,

just as my blackmagic Video Assist recorder (or any Aja, Blackmagic, Sound devices etc... recorder).
A good Stand alone DXV encoder (on PC )would be a great help.

Joris
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Re: ProRes support in Avenue R6b3 -Windows

Post by Joris »

a list of which codecs are supported on which OS
An exhaustive list is pretty much impossible, but we explain our playback system and how it handles various codecs here: https://resolume.com/support/en/video
A good Stand alone DXV encoder (on PC )would be a great help.
We have several plans for an encoder that can run in the background to let you re-encode 'less than optimal' file formats to DXV.

That's no good for Prores support though. In order to re-encode to DXV, you would first need to decode the Prores file. So you're in the same legal bind again. If we were allowed to decode for re-encoding, why not play the file as is?

mfo
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Re: ProRes support in Avenue R6b3 -Windows

Post by mfo »

Being able to play high quality video without a lengthy transcode process can be fairly important.
Have to second that. I totally understand the difficulty of the situation though.
Yet, from experience from festivals, esp Atonal: people demand highest quality playback and will come in last minute with huge ProRes files on external drives. Re-encoding is often not possible due to time restrains.
Similar situation at commercial jobs. If you want to keep attractive for those you need ProRes playback.
But yeah, I understand it is a messy situation.

xniala
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Re: ProRes support in Avenue R6b3 -Windows

Post by xniala »

Hello,

I'm new to Windows world (I just switched from Mac world), but I think ffmpeg engine could handle Prores decoding.
So why continue working with QTkit ??

Alain

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subpixel
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Re: ProRes support in Avenue R6b3 -Windows

Post by subpixel »

xniala wrote:..I think ffmpeg engine could handle Prores decoding.
So why continue working with QTkit ?
Joris already mentioned this:
Joris wrote:Looks like I jumped the gun on this.

Since we don't use Quicktime/QTKit for decoding anymore (because ohmagaa, Quicktime is sooo unsafe now :roll: ), we cannot play ProRes files on PC without a license from Apple. We requested this license several times, but we haven't heard back from them.

You can play ProRes on Windows through FFMPEG. In our testing, it wasn't very fast. Also, codec support in FFMPEG has big restrictions based on the licensing model of the host application, so it's unclear whether we're actually allowed to use it to decode ProRes at all.

So yeah, outlook not so good I'm afraid.

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subpixel
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Re: ProRes support in Avenue R6b3 -Windows

Post by subpixel »

I have done a gig using Premiere for playback of a couple of hours of footage direct from my Sony A7S (that I mixed with other sources in Resolume) - around 50Mbps XACV-S video. That worked really well. I could play back at double (or higher) speed and with better performance (smoother output) than using VLC as the player at normal speed.

I've just installed the latest version of the NDI Toolkit, which includes NDI Output for Adobe some of the CC applications.

Here are the details for a sample ProRes file from my Atomos Ninja Assassin.

The file is 5.53 GB (5,939,395,584 bytes), on a 2TB USB3 external HDD.

===================== General =====================
Complete name : G:\data\video\capture\SonyA7S\171016 Mon - Ninja Assassin update\clips-4k\SPXL-4K1_S001_S001_T013.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec Id : qt
File size : 5.53 GB
Duration (ms) : 1mn 53s
OverallBitRate_Mode/String : Variable
Total bitrate : 418 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2017-10-16 07:26:17
Tagged date : UTC 2017-10-16 07:26:17
Encoded library : Apple QuickTime

===================== Video =====================
Id : 2
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : High
Codec Id : apch
Duration (ms) : 1mn 53s
Bitrate mode : Variable
Bitrate : 416 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Aspect ratio : 16:9
Framerate mode : Constant
Framerate : 59.940 fps
Colorimetry : YUV
Colos space : 4:2:2
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.344
Stream size : 5.50 GB (99%)
Encoded library : atms
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2017-10-16 07:26:17
Tagged date : UTC 2017-10-16 07:26:17
colour_primaries : BT.709
transfer_characteristics : BT.709
matrix_coefficients : BT.709

===================== Audio =====================
Id : 1
Format : PCM
Format_Settings_Endianness : Little
Format_Settings_Sign : Unsigned
Codec Id : in24
Duration (ms) : 1mn 53s
Bitrate mode : Constant
Bitrate : 1 152 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
ChannelPositions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 15.6 MB (0%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2017-10-16 07:26:17
Tagged date : UTC 2017-10-16 07:26:17

===================== Other =====================
Id : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration (ms) : 1mn 53s
TimeCode_FirstFrame : 00:00:00;00
TimeCode_Settings : Striped
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2017-10-16 07:26:17
Tagged date : UTC 2017-10-16 07:26:17

Made with MediaTab 1.4

I loaded this clip (and a couple of others) into Premiere, made a new sequence from the clip and have enabled loop mode in the main playback viewer. I've set the Playback Resoution to "Full".

My CPU usage is taking a massive hit. Premiere's load is around 60-70%, total load around 92%. The Resolume comp is 1920x1080, and I have just one other layer running (DXV) and an AutoMask effect (my own, similar to Auto Mask) on the NDI layer. Resolume is reporting around 45fps (not bad!) but the NDI feeed seems a little shaky (not totally smooth).

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