NDI HX

"Where is Feature X? I need Feature X! How can you not have Feature X?"
resolumejunkie
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Re: NDI HX

Post by resolumejunkie »

dirtyjohn_lv wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 17:06 NDI is a great step in the right direction but it's not ready for live yet. I still have a prototype NDI-PTZ from Newtek that works great, I've managed to get delay down to 160ms (using testcards with timecode, high speed cameras and massive amount of tweaking network settings), which is great in terms of networking and speed in a post production environment, but in a live setting it sucks.
The Birddog P100 is 67 milliseconds, glass to glass, when received by a Birddog Studio decoder.

Test apparatus: Sony PVM-A170 and iPhone 12 Pro in 60fps 4K mode and 250fps HD mode. It’s 3 frames (50ms) via SDI and 4 frames (67ms) via NDI. Glass to glass.

NDI is also useful for outputs from Resolume.
Last edited by resolumejunkie on Wed Jul 28, 2021 22:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Arvol
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Re: NDI HX

Post by Arvol »

resolumejunkie wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 04:14 After doing this kind deed, I had my head chewed off by Arvol for doing a good deed: giving something away for free, that required no license whatsoever to use,

I guess I’m one of the few Resolume customers not on drugs all the time! Geesuz.
I have NO clue what you are talking about? Are you sure it was me? I'm all for free tools that benefit everyone. I even made my own Lumitri Color style color correction plugin for Arena, so If you had a free version out there, that would have saved me a lot of time, so again, not sure WTF you're talking about lol

That's a pretty bold statement thinking that all Resolume users are on drugs, everything going ok for you back home? Sounds like you have a few personal issues you might be going through?

"Arvol’s tone was very dismissive"

At the end of the day, without trying to create more drama, I firmly stand behind that NDI is a cool concept that is a few years away from being something stable industry professionals can use without the fear of it failing and taking a show down with it (as it has for me in the past, and no, it wasn't any issues with my hardware or network). You have been really pushing NDO lately (that's cool), but I'm also giving my personal experience with NDI as well as the experience of at least half a dozen other industry leaders experiences with NDI. It's a cool tool for sending non mission critical info to other co-workers, but I'd never put my entire show on the shoulders of NDI as it will fail and you will loose clients. So you can keep boasting up NDI and I'll also be playing devils advocate of how it has failed me and others in the past.
For now, I still stand by my statement of
SDI/HDMI>NDI>NDI-HX
So if I come off as dismissive it's because I have actual real world history with NDI failing me and my clients.

If you have an issue with me (as my name keeps coming up for some reason) then DM me and I'd be happy to have a chat with you, let's try to take the high road here, eh???

resolumejunkie
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Re: NDI HX

Post by resolumejunkie »

Your name comes up often because you often respond immediately to every post I make on this forum, Arvol! LOL!

Re: plug-ins, here is is a repost of the link:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t4dmreyw1448 ... FaSOa?dl=0

If you have anything free to share, happy to try it out!

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Arvol
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Re: NDI HX

Post by Arvol »

DM me your email and I'll send you my Lumitri Color Resolume plugin to test.

Sorry if this thread has been side tracked from the OP. :)

Jambalob
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Re: NDI HX

Post by Jambalob »

resolumejunkie wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 15:10 How about now and today? On Windows, just use the (free) Newtek NDI Bridge as a transcoder from Full NDI to NDI HX2.
Nice! I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the tip.

Jambalob
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Re: NDI HX

Post by Jambalob »

resolumejunkie wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 01:08
dirtyjohn_lv wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 00:41
resolumejunkie wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 18:04 If NDI is a fundamentally unreliable technology, then why did Vizrt pay $90m for it? Is Resolume worth $90m? And, really, unreliable compared to what?
They paid for the whole package, NDI and Newtek, not just the technology
resolumejunkie wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 18:04 As far as HX, does encoder qualify factor into your opinion formation process?

The x265 codec looks great! 10-bit HEVC 3840x2160 at 1MB per frame looks phenomenal!

HX is useful anywhere you want a lower bandwidth video stream. Current applications are WiFi and WAN.
Do you actually use Resolume and NDI in a live environment like 90% of the users on this forum? A lot of your posts seem to be pushing for things that Resolume is just not meant for. Pushing Vuo Pro plugins ($120 license btw, not cross platform), comparing Resolume to iPad software (oh look, again, not cross platform) built for a specific purpose.

If you're so knowledgeable on rendering engines, you should have gone ahead and built your own VJ software in the time when everybody was out of work.

Seriously though, there's plenty of us out there that have tried to use stuff like NDI in a live environment, but they way Resolume is built to run on their own custom engine, using their own custom codec - when it comes to all the strobing, flashing, fast video movement and switching, SDI is the better capture solution.

I own Tricasters with both SDI and NDI, and get better frame rates captured in Resolume with SDI than NDI, and this is after years of doing large scale work in large corporate networking environments (15+ years). Hell, AMX is a better solution than NDI most of the time

Instead of trying to get people to change their software to your special case needs, how about finding something that suits your needs or write your own software? There are plenty of solutions out there to try (GrandVJ, Modul8, TouchDesigner, Notch, Disguise, Hippo).
That’s a great deal of hostility considering all I did here was respond to someone else’s question with a free solution! Transcoding NDI to NDI HX previously required Sienna ND Processing Engine, starting at $7,000. I was really impressed Newtek included transcoding in NDI 5 Bridge. Felt like sharing. Arvol’s tone was very dismissive. I can’t figure out why. I simply responded to a question with a free solution. Rock n roll people don’t make much sense to this filmmaking-industry person.

But, to answer your question, no, I try to avoid Resolume in general for on-set video playback on movies and tv shows. Some people do use it. I think it’s the wrong tool for that job. But, sometimes it has features that are necessary (mapping, for instance). As far as live events, no, I have zero passion for an art form that caters to people who are intoxicated and/or high. Not my thang.

As far as careers go, filmmaking has better wages, healthcare benefits, and a better safety record than live events. We don’t kill people as often as live events do. : )

And, the film industry has never had a mass-casualty incident, unlike countless concerts and nightclubs.
I too work in TV/Film and my main reason for asking about NDI HX is because our lighting systems are usually just gigabit. A few, full fat NDI streams would be fine on smaller rigs, but it would be nice to know that I had an HX option.

Sometimes we use video panels just for lighting. Or during driving scenes video panels will be positioned around the vehicle and we will pipe in video for the reflections in the window while using blue screen to superimpose plate shots.

I am very new to media server programming and I understand that Resolume may not be the tool for my field, but I am looking at all options and thought that having HX as an output protcol could come in handy.

I noticed that it was on their TO DO list (for output), just thought I'd ask. Thanks everyone.

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Arvol
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Re: NDI HX

Post by Arvol »

I ran a few commercial shoots for General Motors a few months back all using Resolume. Great tool for the job if you're using LED panels. 10/10 would highly recommend :)

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