Each layer has its own BPM. Why not ...?

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AEK
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Each layer has its own BPM. Why not ...?

Post by AEK »

Image

Hi all!
Very often in the show, you want to implement a situation in which the animation of the footage of each layer had its own BPM(as the instruments in the ensemble do it ), a multiple (less than /2 or more *2) of the base BPM obtained from midi clock or ableton link. The current version of Arena (7.3.1) does not allow layers to have different BPM values, nor to use buttons to increase/decrease BPM value received from an external source.
What can be the solution to this problem - Plug-ins? External OSC?
And of course, I would like to hear the opinion of Resolume on the development of Arena in this direction ...

Best regards,
Andrey.
Last edited by AEK on Mon Feb 08, 2021 05:22, edited 2 times in total.

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Arvol
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Re: Each layer has its own BPM. Why not ...?

Post by Arvol »

That would require a lot of extra processing. How beefy of a CPU do you have?
Also why? This sounds like a bad idea. It's much easier to automate the global BPM than try to keep tracks of what's what.

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AEK
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Re: Each layer has its own BPM. Why not ...?

Post by AEK »

Arvol, I have updated my post...

In terms of performance ... Today we are using an i7 processor with 8 physical cores. I think this power will be enough. If not, then we will upgrade the configuration. When choosing a video server, we proceed from the objectives of the show. This functionality will significantly improve the quality of the show, therefore, we are ready for additional investments if necessary.

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Re: Each layer has its own BPM. Why not ...?

Post by Arvol »

You can do this on a per clip level. I know many people (myself included) have gone through their entire library of content and have optimized their content to BPM (including /2 or *2 time for clips that need it). This is kind of the standard (that I'm aware of).

I can't speak for Resolume, But I've built a few smaller media servers and lighting controllers myself. Having 10+ clock sources is VERY (VERY!) taxing on the system. I doubt your i& will keep up if you have more than a clip or 2 running on a few different clocks. I was able to get about 8 clips working on mine before i was below 30fps. If you have a threadripper and software that utilizes all of those cores, you might be ok, But I don't believe resolume utilizes all of your cores (could be wrong).

Personally what I was after a few months ago is a BPM offset for animations, so rather than starting on 1 out of 4, you can choose 2, 3 or 4 out of 4. This is possible because it still shares the same clock. But having a different clock per layer is going to get real expensive real quick. I think having a different approach to your workflow might be a better solution?

I think you could 2 2 layers with LTC (since the external audio is the clock for those layers), a layer of bpm material, and a layer of free run transport time material, to get you a total of 4 clock sources that wat, but again, 2 of those layers will be external audio clocks.

I'd just spend a few days getting all of you clips synced individually and then you can have a layer of cut or double time clips from the base layers clip and just use the global bpm.

Hope all of this makes sense? :)

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AEK
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Re: Each layer has its own BPM. Why not ...?

Post by AEK »

Thanks Arvol. There are reasonable thoughts in your reasoning. I will think about them.
Forming a show with a pre-set tempo is not an option in our case - we work with a DJ and we never know exactly which version of the mix will sound at an event. This is a feature of the live mode, as you know.

Isn't it possible to increment BPM relative to the base external one if BPM is the same for all layers? Now it can only be done by switching to manual control mode? This step immediately affects the quality of synchronization and is terribly inconvenient ...

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Re: Each layer has its own BPM. Why not ...?

Post by Arvol »

I do 200+ DJ shows a year (when covid isn't a thing) and what you're describing is called vj'ing lol.
I rarely know what the artist or song is that is being played let alone BPM. That's where having your content properly setup to a baseline bpm and tap tempo comes into play.
You can adjust each clip to half or double time once you get them setup initially (you can also trim the clips to make them in beat), so preview your clips when you're home and get everything synced up to a single bpm, then during your show, adjust the bpm on the fly like the rest of us lol.

If you show "HAS" to be "That" in sync, then you need to be touring with the same artist. And at that point you need to use ShowKontrol to send OSC and LTC back to Resolume and you wouldn't be driving the show anymore, the DJ will.

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AEK
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Re: Each layer has its own BPM. Why not ...?

Post by AEK »

Arvol wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 16:36 ... so preview your clips when you're home and get everything synced up to a single bpm, then during your show, adjust the bpm on the fly like the rest of us lol.
I already told you that we use an external BPM generator Waveclock, which perfectly determines the tempo and we don't want to give it up. But while it is running, we cannot adjust the BPM values - the current version of Arena allows us to do this only in manual mode. That's all the problem! Why can't these restrictions be removed ?!

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Re: Each layer has its own BPM. Why not ...?

Post by Arvol »

I never saw a mention of that?
Since that app is driving the BPM Arena is locked to that device.
Just the way things work. Your situation is probably the only unique situation like this, so changing standard operating procedures for 1 user out of the entire customer base is probably not going to happen.
You can however change the "Selected Clip" Via MIDI or OSC. This might be a solution for you. For OSC use the following addresses:

/composition/selectedclip/transport/position/behaviour/duration/multiply
/composition/selectedclip/transport/position/behaviour/duration/divide
/composition/selectedclip/transport/position/behaviour/duration [With a Float 0.0 - 1.0 (range 0.0 - 1048576.0)]
Or
/composition/selectedclip/transport/position/behaviour/speed [With a Float 0.0 - 1.0 (range 0.0 - 16.0)]


You could also try to drive a "Freeplay clip" (Not BPM playhead) with an external OSC playhead using the following OSC command for the selected clip (or specific clips using layer/column orders, but that might take forever to program):
/composition/selectedclip/transport/position

I've tried this method in the past and it's VERY iify, probably not the best of ideas lol.

Good luck

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Re: Each layer has its own BPM. Why not ...?

Post by Zoltán »

Is your dj a Denon or Pioneer guy/girl?
Theatre sound engineer, photographer, programmer, aka ravensc.
Control Your show with ”Enter” - multiple Resolume servers at once - SMPTE/MTC column launch
try for free: http://programs.palffyzoltan.hu
VJ footage: https://goo.gl/58oHy7

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AEK
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Re: Each layer has its own BPM. Why not ...?

Post by AEK »

Hi Zoltan,
We work with different DJs. There are girls, there are boys. And they have many different dj consoles.

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