Optimus / Nvidia GTX / vsync / 60 fps

Bro, does your rig even lift?
Post Reply
Joris
Doesn't Know Jack about VJ'ing or Software Development and Mostly Just Gets Coffee for Everyone
Posts: 5180
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 11:38

Optimus / Nvidia GTX / vsync / 60 fps

Post by Joris » Fri Feb 09, 2018 13:17

Optimus, vsync and performance seems to be a topic that continues to be problematic for a lot of people (including us, I should add!). So I went and got myself a laptop with Optimus and a Nvidia GTX 1070 for testing. Trying out different settings, I came up with some interesting results.

These tests are all done on a Win 10 laptop, using the recommended updates for Windows (Fall Creator) and Nvidia (driver 390.77). 3 connected displays running at 1920x1200 each. The vsync is controlled by the 'Vertical sync' option in Nvidia Control Panel, set for Arena.exe. All other settings and Global Settings are left at default. Optimus is controlled by enabling or disabling it in BIOS. I tested for tearing and judder with a horizontally scrolling Lines source in a 5760x1200 comp. The Lines source was colored pink because I'm a real man.

Optimus enabled, vsync set to 'Use 3d application settings': 20 fps, no tearing
Optimus enabled, vsync set to 'On', 15 fps, no tearing
Optimus enabled, vsync set to 'Off', 140 fps, with considerable tearing and extreme judder.
Optimus *disabled*, vsync set to 'Use 3d application settings': 60 fps, no tearing

So it looks like having both Optimus and vsync enabled somehow reduces the framerate with each connected monitor. Disabling Optimus lets Nvidia do its thing and everything is as expected.

Now here's the interesting one:
Optimus *enabled*, vsync set to 'Off', Composition Framerate in Resolume set to 60. Result: 60 fps, no tearing.

This was a surprise to me. Apparently, our new framerate cap is tight enough to force correct monitor refresh updates, even when vsync is disabled and Optimus is running.

Now if you're using the laptop strictly for shows, I'd probably turn off Optimus completely. Saving the battery is pretty pointless then anyway. But if you want to save battery life, going into BIOS sounds really scary, or can't turn off Optimus in BIOS at all (which apparently is a thing on some laptops), turning off vsync and letting Resolume handle it, seems to be a very viable option.

Note that this is the result of a single morning of testing, not an endorsement of anything or an end-all advice on how to do things, valid forever. Graphic drivers are a nightmare to work with, and your mileage may vary considerably.

User avatar
Arvol
Knows Resolume better than the devs
Posts: 1067
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 17:36
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: Optimus / Nvidia GTX / vsync / 60 fps

Post by Arvol » Fri Feb 09, 2018 16:30

Great post Joris. And yes pink IS for real men :)

Unfortunately for me, I can't disable Optimus in my Bios. I'm working with my system dev's to see about getting an update to fix this. It's very frustrating.

Using Windows 10 (original, not Fall) creator's update, and V-Sync set to On gave me a constant 60fps without any tearing. But the Fall Creators Update really screwed ALL of that up, I get about 12fps.

I had a client manually enable to Windows Update this last weekend (I disable it via services.msc) So needless to say, one of our Vegas show's was running 12fps and I got a panic call this last weekend. Lucky for them they only use 1 screen so I set V-Sync to Off and they were pushing 47-53fps. Not Ideal, and I now have to fly out and do a server swap so I can roll back the system to the Original Creators Update.

For me, Getting an option to disable Optimus the the Ideal fix, but for now, all I can do is roll back the system to the Original systems update.
This is a real pain in my ass!

I like your findings on:
Now here's the interesting one:
Optimus *enabled*, vsync set to 'Off', Composition Framerate in Resolume set to 60. Result: 60 fps, no tearing.
This will help a lot of people I feel. For now, It's getting my client by until I can fly out and do the swap.

Great post. Thank you again for throwing up some actually real world numbers people can reference. This has been discussed many time on the social media interwebz and I feel the overall answer is the same, Steer clear of the feared Fall Creators Update.

Grimm90
Hasn't felt like this about software in a long time
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 19:08

Re: Optimus / Nvidia GTX / vsync / 60 fps

Post by Grimm90 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 17:30

So i was trying to fix my]MSI optimus issue with this guide (no option to turn off Optimus). viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15711

Locking FPS at 60 didn't change a thing , still got a jitery glitchy screen and all outputs pop white if i move the advanced output window.

But then , i tried to capture this chaos with OBS studio to show here , and the moment i add a display capture in obs , on my display 0 (laptop with no externals monitors connected) , it's like fixing everything.

Doesn't matter if i'm recording or not , adding the display capture eat about 10fps here.
It does make Resolume 6 behave completly normal & stable.
For me it makes the same result as having a secondary monitor connected and make that main display work around, which is great cause i don't always have a second monitor to do this magic.
Going to test this soon with external monitors and keeping laptop work monitor as main display.

Joris
Doesn't Know Jack about VJ'ing or Software Development and Mostly Just Gets Coffee for Everyone
Posts: 5180
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 11:38

Re: Optimus / Nvidia GTX / vsync / 60 fps

Post by Joris » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:34

I think it's important to keep things clear here:

Optimus is currently causing a few issues, each with their own symptoms and each with their own solution/workaround.

One symptom is dropped performance when connecting multiple screens. This problem is worked-arounded by using the framerate cap.

A completely different symptom is the Advanced Output window going white. This problem is worked-arounded by connecting your main display to your powerful GPU (making your secondary your main display).

Same cause, different problems, different solutions.

visions
Is taking Resolume on a second date
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 13:56

Re: Optimus / Nvidia GTX / vsync / 60 fps

Post by visions » Sun Jun 03, 2018 04:17

It seems that Optimus is being adopted massively. Today all gaming laptops come with optimus technology. without the option to disable it by bios, since the phisical display connectors are on the Intel card and Nvidia acts only as a co-processor or something like that. In games it is not a real problem, they use near 100% of Nvidia gpu (when assigned). But in resolume it is a nightmare: massive frame drops, inconsistent fps, and interface doesn't behave smooth. I tested with three different laptops with Optimus with similar results: (using advanced output with Resolume 6) very low load of Nvidia GPU 3d activity and copy, and near 100% intel 3d load. Even with no clips loaded.
Example: Dell 7000 / I7 6700 / Geforce gtx960m / Intel HD 530 / Optimus (Nvidia assigned to resolume.exe). Resolume 6.0.7. Composition 1920x1080. No clips loaded. Advanced output 4K with 4 slices. ~22 fps. Cpu load: ~50%. Intel card load: ~95%. Nvidia 3d load: ~25%. Nvidia copy load: ~40%.
It seems threre is a bottleneck somewhere...

User avatar
drazkers
Wants to marry Resolume, and Resolume said "yes!"
Posts: 952
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 10:54
Location: Brady V up in Canada

Re: Optimus / Nvidia GTX / vsync / 60 fps

Post by drazkers » Sun Jun 03, 2018 06:27

visions wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 04:17
It seems that Optimus is being adopted massively. Today all gaming laptops come with optimus technology. without the option to disable it by bios, since the phisical display connectors are on the Intel card and Nvidia acts only as a co-processor or something like that. In games it is not a real problem, they use near 100% of Nvidia gpu (when assigned). But in resolume it is a nightmare: massive frame drops, inconsistent fps, and interface doesn't behave smooth. I tested with three different laptops with Optimus with similar results: (using advanced output with Resolume 6) very low load of Nvidia GPU 3d activity and copy, and near 100% intel 3d load. Even with no clips loaded.
Example: Dell 7000 / I7 6700 / Geforce gtx960m / Intel HD 530 / Optimus (Nvidia assigned to resolume.exe). Resolume 6.0.7. Composition 1920x1080. No clips loaded. Advanced output 4K with 4 slices. ~22 fps. Cpu load: ~50%. Intel card load: ~95%. Nvidia 3d load: ~25%. Nvidia copy load: ~40%.
It seems threre is a bottleneck somewhere...
Most of us are buying Sager's and gaming machines without it. It really sucks but you really have to plan you're laptop purchase carefully these days.

Yah, i can see the bottle neck its the Intel Card(95%), which you should try to disable via 3d settings in nvidia panel.

User avatar
ScarletSinger
Met Resolume in a bar the other day
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 09:43
Location: Detroit, USA

Re: Optimus / Nvidia GTX / vsync / 60 fps

Post by ScarletSinger » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:39

Yeah, I've looked into the options to turn Optimus off and everyone says to do so through BIOS, but if the option is not there, then you pretty much screwed. And it seems like that issue is baked in and can't be solved via a BIOS update.

The worst part is how much homework you need to do when buying something. With my job, I often have to look up where to buy high-quality electronics and the shops themselves often don't all the little details and possible issues with your future purchase.

Luxcollective
Is taking Resolume on a second date
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 22:33

Re: Optimus / Nvidia GTX / vsync / 60 fps

Post by Luxcollective » Sat Sep 22, 2018 18:57

Not all gaming laptops have Optimus. The Acer Triton 700 is such a unicorn:

https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/p ... rtriton700

I love how reviews suggest that it's a negative thing: "The only serious drawback which may be a deal-breaker for some of you is the poor battery life most probably caused by the absence of the NVIDIA Optimus feature" Who gives a _____ about battery life. :-)

deflost
Is taking Resolume on a second date
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 23:10

Re: Optimus / Nvidia GTX / vsync / 60 fps

Post by deflost » Thu Apr 18, 2019 21:37

All xmg gaming laptops are availlable without intel graphics!!
R.h
westfernsehen, leipzig

Post Reply