Midi 127 values limitation...

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gonzzza
Met Resolume in a bar the other day
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Midi 127 values limitation...

Post by gonzzza » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:49

Hi! I am using Resolume Arena for the visuals in the dance show. I am generally very happy with it.
I use automations a lot but some animations I have to do manually using MIDI controller.
What worries me is the 8bit limitation of MIDI protocol. If I have a screen 1000pixels wide and have to move some layer from one side of the screen to another - it will jump 10pixels because MIDI knob has only 128 values. And this does not look good!

Maybe I can combine two sliders/buttons to change one value - but this solution is clumsy, and during a live show it's better to have a simple and clear solution...

I heard that there are controllers that allow to use 10bit and even 14bit resolution. I think it's called NRPN protocol... can I use them with Arena?

How do you solve this problem?

gonzzza
Met Resolume in a bar the other day
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Re: Midi 127 values limitation...

Post by gonzzza » Thu Mar 14, 2019 13:19

For example Novation ZeRO SL MkII supports 14bit MIDI. Does anyone use it with Arena?

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Zoltán
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Re: Midi 127 values limitation...

Post by Zoltán » Fri Mar 15, 2019 13:35

There is a 14 bit option for midi CC shortcuts.
Have you tried that?
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gonzzza
Met Resolume in a bar the other day
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Re: Midi 127 values limitation...

Post by gonzzza » Sun Mar 17, 2019 20:29

Zoltán wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 13:35
There is a 14 bit option for midi CC shortcuts.
Have you tried that?

Képernyőfotó 2019-03-15 - 13.34.50.png
Yes I have tried that, but i think this is not the feature I'm looking for. This is a pairing of two parameters with each other. For example on my Korg NanoKONTROL my sliders are being paired with a Button! When I select 14bit checkbox - my slider stops working at all.

Here's what I found about this feature in the forum:
The very rare 14-bit MIDI is the feature of the Continuous Controller MIDI specification, where any of the first 32 controls (MSB - CC 0-31) can be optionally paired with a control offset 32 higher (LSB - CC 32-63) and using them as coarse and fine parameters of a 14-bit value, and this way allow using 16,384 possible values instead of 127.

Although there are not so many hardware - synth, never heard about any MIDI controller that actually supporting it - or software that are actually supporting it.

Joris
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Re: Midi 127 values limitation...

Post by Joris » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:57

At this point, I'm not sure what your question is... :)

gonzzza
Met Resolume in a bar the other day
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Re: Midi 127 values limitation...

Post by gonzzza » Tue Mar 19, 2019 17:55

Joris wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:57
At this point, I'm not sure what your question is... :)
Standard MIDI message has only 128 possible values as it uses 7bit.
There are MIDI controllers that use 10bit and even 14bit (if I'm not mistaken). My question is - how to use 10/14bit MIDI controllers with Arena.

Joris
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Re: Midi 127 values limitation...

Post by Joris » Tue Mar 19, 2019 19:27

If you have a controller that actually sends 14 bit MIDI, you can use it by enabling the 14 bit toggle, like Zoltan posted before.

If your controller does not actually send 14 bit MIDI, that button does not magically make your controller do so.

The combining of two CCs doesn't mean that you will be physically turning two knobs on your controller. On a 14 bit CC, your controller will read out the (stepless) value of the potentiometer of a single knob and quantize it to 14 bits. It will then send out the MSB on the first CC and the LSB on its paired second CC. By enabling the toggle in Resolume, Resolume will know to combine the value of that shortcut's CC with its pair CC, and calculate it back to a single value. That value is then used to set the parameter you assigned the shortcut to.

So on one side, you're turning one knob, and on the other side, you're seeing one value change. Aside from the higher range, there is no physical difference from a regular 7 bit CC.

Does that help explain it?

gonzzza
Met Resolume in a bar the other day
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Re: Midi 127 values limitation...

Post by gonzzza » Fri Apr 05, 2019 14:52

Joris wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 19:27
If you have a controller that actually sends 14 bit MIDI, you can use it by enabling the 14 bit toggle, like Zoltan posted before.
Does that help explain it?
Yes, Joris, thanks a lot! Now I have to get the controller that supports 14bit MIDI, and hopefully be happy!

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